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.17HMR vs: .17Mach2 cartridge
One thing I think we can establish: 17 rimfires and woodchucks should not be in the same picture, unless you are pretty close and real good with head shots.
Yooper: There are some newish rounds out now for the 22 mag, with lighter weight bullets, increased range and killing power on coyote size and smaller critters.
If you like Mauser's, as I do, you should take a peek at CZ rifles. They have a scaled down mauser action chambered in 22 Hornet, which by the way, has some new, hot factory loadings that make it a true 300 yard varmint getter.
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.17HMR vs: .17Mach2 cartridge
Sturm, Ruger is proud to introduce five rifle models for 2004 in an exciting new caliber: the 204 RUGER. This small, fast, and efficient new cartridge is the result of another joint development effort between Sturm, Ruger and Hornady Manufacturing Company. The 204 RUGER shares the same case head and overall length dimensions as the 222 Remington Magnum, but uses a slender new 20 caliber, 32 grain, V-MAX bullet. The 204 RUGER’s bullet has an extremely efficient ballistic coefficient of 0.192 and an amazing muzzle velocity of 4,225 feet per second.
When compared directly with either the 22-250 Remington or the 220 Swift, the 204 RUGER offers higher muzzle velocity and flatter trajectory. Because the 204 RUGER cartridge achieves a higher velocity with less propellant than either the 22-250 Remington or the 220 Swift, this new cartridge does not compromise barrel life. The 204 RUGER also offers lower recoil and muzzle report than comparable high-velocity, sub-caliber ammunition. Its conventional case shape avoids feeding problems and increased rearward bolt thrust associated with short and super short magnum cartridges.
Because this new caliber provides significant benefits for varmint hunters and target shooters alike, Sturm, Ruger is introducing five rifle models chambered for the 204 RUGER. These include three bolt action rifles and two single shot rifles. The Ruger M77 MKII bolt action rifles include: the M77R in blued steel with a cut-checkered American walnut stock; the KM77RLFP Ultralight All-Weather in stainless steel with a synthetic stock and a light contour barrel; and the Target Grey KM77VT Target rifle in stainless steel with a brown, laminated wood stock, heavy target barrel, and two-stage target trigger. Ruger No.1 single shot models include the No. 1 Standard in blued steel with a cut-checkered American walnut stock and the No. 1 Stainless Varminter in stainless steel with a black, laminated stock.
A friend of mine has one and says it's definitely a keeper.
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.17HMR vs: .17Mach2 cartridge
Just my opinion here......... that and 75 might get me a cup of coffee. ;O) I have made upto 100 yard shots with a 22LR. Out to about 75 yards; a 22LR should be able to cover most issues. Beyond that, I use a 223. There are a whole candy store of various calibers that are out there to choose from but depending upon how much you shoot; the cost of ammo can make its use prohibitive. Unless you like the hobby of reloading or have a particular application that requires handloading; reloading is just not cost effective nor practical. The basic cartridges produced in mass volume such as 22, 9mm, 45 ACP, 223, 308, and 30.06 can be purchased for much less than half the cost of these other new cartridges. There is no way I can reload a box of 223 for $4, or a box of 12 gauge for $2.
If the 22 can't cover it, the 223 can. From there the 308 or 30.06 can cover things upto all but the largest game applications. I have a 375 H&H for that but something along the lines of a 338 Winchester or 45-70 will do. These are still fairly plentiful with respect to availability.
I think sticking with the basic, tried and true cartridges is the best way.
What I don't understand or see the logic in is why the restriction on rim fire ammo only? This seems to be the same illogical logic that muzzle loading restrictions has produced. A modern muzzle loader with a rifled barrel, with provisions for a 209 primer, burning smokeless powder, pushing a modern partitioned, jacketed bullet is no different than a rifle. May as well change the restriction to single shot rifles. But the whacky game and hunting laws the states come up with is a subject for anther thread.
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.17HMR vs: .17Mach2 cartridge
How 'bout a Ruger .204?
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.17HMR vs: .17Mach2 cartridge
Growing up on a farm, varmit hunting was the only part-time job available. We used to get the local farmers to pay us to rid them of whatever pests they had.
The popular choice was a .22, mostly for economic reasons.
It also had a big benefit though, it taught us important lessons in patience, stalking and camoflage.
Now that I'm older though, read lazier, I agree more & more with the long range theory, a .223 with a decent scope is the instrument of choice.
Best of luck.
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.17HMR vs: .17Mach2 cartridge
I should never have purchased the .17HMR but have it now and will stick with it. In a moment of passion for something new I made the purchase but only bought a cheapie gun so nothing was really lost. I'm told the .17HMR will dust a fox or coyote quite easily if properly placed. Chances are a .22 Stinger or .22Mag would have done the same thing for evening hunting shots. I can't argue with the reasoning behind Michigan DNR laws. Got to give the animals some sort of chance.
On my farm which is open land with 1/2 mile depth to a RR and neighbors on each side that are about 300 and 600 yards away, I'm concerned about shooting a .223 at rodents, etc.
I have a shooting box set-up which is 2ft square x 4" thick with sand and a 1/2" thick steel plate behind it for carefully plinking any round.
Even with the .22Long Rifle, I'm nervous about a side shot at a racoon. Many of my coons won't fit in a cage type trap since they're big. Ones that do fit in the cage can take about 2 head shots and several lung shots with a .22 before letting them out of the cage. Sometimes, they still do lunge and hiss at you.
I chose the .17HMR since I was told the ballistics are so great with the small projectile that it explodes upon impact with the ground. This would hopefully stop stray rounds from getting at the neighbors.
I normally don't pack a rifle in my car and with my CCW, rifles aren't included. You're not supposed to go driving around with a rifle in your car unless it is for hunting purposes, you have a license, and it is in season.
I have bunches of stray cats at the farm that you can't get much less than 15 yeads away from. They push out my farm cats and eat all the food. They watch my tame cats get caught in the live trap but won't go inside themselves. Then they urinate all over inside my barn and on tools and everywhere.
I carry a .357Mag and it isn't doing the job for cats that I want. The .357Mag hollow point don't expand, so the impact point must be right on to be instantaneously effective. Being a pistol, I can't get quite the accuracy needed. I can only hold about a 2 " pattern at 15 yards with most being in a 1" circle (8 3/8" barrel length). I'm not into torture or cruelty to animals. These stray cats gotta go but not on my tools, tractors, etc. Nothing like stepping into something just before mounting the tractor or getting back into your truck.
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.17HMR vs: .17Mach2 cartridge
Everybody loves the venerable old 22 but it's got a rainbow trajectory. The 17 mach2 shoots vertually flat to 100 yards.
"Hornady's trajectory figures look like this: +0.7" at 50 yards, 0 at 100 yards, and -4.4" at 150 yards. This is a very useful trajectory for small game hunting, far better than that of the .22 LR, which has a 2.7" rise at 50 yards and 10.8" drop at 150 yards when zeroed at 100 yards. Practically speaking, a .22 LR rifle needs to be zeroed at about 75 yards to avoid over-shooting small animals like squirrels at intermediate distances, so the .17 M2 has about a 25 yard advantage in range over the .22 LR."
Flat shooting and 20% more energy than the 22 long rifle. No lead fouling of the barrel. Sounds like a winner to me. The main negative is price. You won't find ammo for $2 a box for the mach2, more like $6 a box.
Dave
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.17HMR vs: .17Mach2 cartridge
Yooper said "I should never have purchased the .17HMR but have it now and will stick with it. In a moment of passion for something new I made the purchase but only bought a cheapie gun so nothing was really lost. "
I wouldn't give up on the NEF yet, or was it an H&R? Either way it's the same rifle. Especially if you haven't shot it alot. I've read that it takes at least 100 rnds for the barrel to break in. I've got a single shot NEF 30-06 and it's a real tack driver. My good friend has the same thing in .223 and he regularly beats the guys with much more expensive guns (with .223s and 22-250s) at 300 yds.
Dave
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.17HMR vs: .17Mach2 cartridge
I've found the best way to deal with raccoons, feral cats and porcupines, the most common problems around here, is a 12 ga. and my dog.
He puts them up the tree, I bring them back down. ;->
Best of luck.
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.17HMR vs: .17Mach2 cartridge
Shortmagnum:
It is actually a NEF but like you said H&R and them are the same creature. The finish is like black oxide and so rough that you can't wipe it decent without snagging your rag/cloth. If you don't keep it dripping wet with oil, finger prints will rust in a couple of hours use.
With a Bushnell 3-9X scope and rest, I expected to be able to virtually drive tacks at 25-50 yards. If you use CCI ammo you can't hold a 3" pattern. The Hornady ammo gets closer to 1" but has an occasional flyer. I'm angry about this but don't know who to blame; the gun, the ammo or me!
I can do that with my Marlin or Savage .22 long rifle and 2 1/2X scope.
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